Sometimes the behavior of daffodils defies traditional explanation. What do you think about these two questions: A long-time grower of daffodils in the landscape was telling me yesterday about the puzzling behavior of a large clump of ‘Ice Follies’. She planted them years ago, in a good location, and for several years they performed well, and as expected–opened W-Y, gradually became W-W? Then she began to spot, first some that opened Y-Y and stayed that way their entire bloom period. Later, others opened all W-W. She carefully moved each of these different bloomers to other places, and continued this process. Over the years, they kept the unusual bloom color, and still do.
Along my Wister planting by my driveway(which some of you have visited, perhaps twice–I began it before the 1997 convention, and have dug and replanted twice, most recently in the fall of 2010), I have noticed this behavior: a bloom of ‘Ice Follies’ or other cultivar will, suddenly, appear six or eight feet away from the original clump. Some years I dig and put the adventurous bulb back with its siblings? Sometimes (as with a good many ‘Sweetness’ this year), they have dispersed too widely, and I let it go. This is obviously not naturalizing, with cultivars. And it is not perennializing. Is it the result of a squirrel taking an experimental bite of a bulb, not liking it, and dropping it a distance away when it doesn’t like the taste?
Loyce McKenzie, growing daffodils on the line between 7a and 8b
Hello Loyce, To my mind what you describe is open pollinisation, when ripe the seeds burst out, roll away a few inches or feet! With in 5 or 6 years in good conditions the new seedlings could flower. When this happens you get both White and Yellow flowers or a mixture of both, but all will show some characteristics of each parent depending on where the itinerant insect stoped of last!
Could that explain this phenomenon!
Ian
Ian
Ian, I suppose this might explain the ‘Ice Follies’ changing color..maybe. Don’t think it’s a good parent under ideal circumstances. But not my “outriders” in my Wister bed, as all were planted there only in the fall of 2010, so couldn’t have gone through the seed-to-bloom process. Also, mine are identical. Loyce
Hi Loyce
Firstly, I must say that I have not grow daffodils for many years, but have spend quite some time reading and studying their genetics, etc, so I am not an expert but have an opinion.
I see Ice Follies as being more genetically unstable than most other cultivars. 5 Registered sports attest to that. 3 of those are doubles (Obdam (4W-W), Ice Kings (4W-Y), and Snowbird (4W-W). The other two are Raoul Wallenberg (2Y-Y) and Slim Whitman (2W-OOY). In South Africa a 2W-O is available through Hadeco under the name of Orange Ice Follies.
Maybe a W-W sport of Ice Follies that starts out as W-W and not as W-Y as Ice Follies does, might be of interest to the Dutch growers? Someone (Lawrence Trevanion, I think) said about Ice Follies “that it is virtually undestructable”. Got some seeds of Ice Follies to plant this year . . . .
Christiaan
Greetings Christiaan,
‘Orange Ice Follies’ was commercially available in the US in the early 2000s; its moniker was quickly replaced by ‘Slim Whitman’, which flowers identically to ‘OIF’. I think they are the same, as I have found no evidence to support that they are unique. Perhaps our Dutch colleagues can shed some light? ‘Slim’ can flower deeply orange some seasons, with a gorgeous yellow rim. It is quite eye-catching.
All of the ‘Ice Follies’ sports do very well here. ‘Full House’, which is a sport of ‘Ice King’ (also known as ‘Double Ice Follies’), is also a terrific grower, and one of the very earliest to flower here in Saint Louis, often two weeks earlier than ‘Ice Follies’ and its other sports. It is far less prone to blasting than ‘Ice King’, which can in some years blast (though not commonly). ‘Obdam’, another sport, does have blast issues here in the Midwest, but when it is provided a perfect spring, it is gorgeous as a cut flower. In its first year down, it can be exceptionally full, like a camellia.
‘Early to Rise’, and its seedling ‘Dangerous Dentures’ are but two of a handful of selections from Missouri hybridizer Dave Niswonger, who early in his breeding infused ‘Ice Follies’ into his genetic line, for vigor. For those who grow these varieties, I think they will agree with me that the vigor is evident. I grow Dave’s seedlings, and those whose parentage traces back to ‘Ice Follies’ are a vigorous and distinct lot—lots of ruffles, pleats, and distinct white-flecked rims, some quite heavy. More people should breed with it–why not?
Hi Jason
I wondered about ‘Orange Ice Follies’ and ‘Slim Whitman’. I do grow the ‘Orange’ and the normal Ice Follies, as well as ‘Obdam’ and ‘Ice King’, it was my first season with them last year.
I have some serious winter issues (like in: What is winter? :-) ). So anything that can survive and thrive in our mild winters could and should be used.
I tried dabbling with carnations some years ago – they do great here, but cultivars are not available easily (same problem with daffs, by the way) and in one of the books I read one of the great carnation hybridizers stated that he never crossed new x new, as the cultivars have not been tested and have not stood the test of time. He prefers to use a cultivar at least 50 years old to cross the new stuff to. I think that many of the older cultivars – if still around – could form a nice base to work from to ensure vitality, vigor and disease resistance. If only the shapes were not that old fashioned . . .
Christiaan