Bob Spotts, California

Strawman for ADS “Generations Class”

August 20, 2008
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Categories: Daffodil Types, Historics, Hybridizing, Seedling, Shows, Species

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Netters,

Here’s a strawman for you to critique:

Generations Class: Cultivar, with or without siblings, along with members of its family tree. If deemed appropriate by judges, class to be sub-divided by number of generations included in the entries. Blooms to be judged on ADS Historics Scale. Overall winner is judged to be the entry having best balance between breadth of generations (50%) and quality of blooms (50%). Winner receives ADS Daffodil Generations Ribbon.  Entries may include blooms of cultivars (registered, unregistered, or seedlings) or species.

Bob

6 responses to “Strawman for ADS “Generations Class””

  1. Clay Higgins says:

     

    Mary Lou,
    I went to the Montgomery MD county fair this past week and watched a hour or so of the Historic Tractor Pull.
    Now those tractors looked old, but I drove them when I was a kid.  Daffodil Historics are older than I am.  Why can’t we update the Historic daffodils to anything before 1950. Based on historic Tractors, they would be more my age and that would make me historic as well. 🙂  LOL I had fun with it at least.
    Clay
  2. Bob Spotts says:

    Netters,
    I have no intention of sponsoring this class – or proposing it to the ADS Board. I was just playing with all the various comments I read and trying to put them into a single statement for critique.
    Bob

  3. Mary Lou Gripshover, Ohio Mary Lou Gripshover says:

    Why use the Historics Scale?  There are almost 70 years worth of flowers after 1940, so I’d guess that there would be more “non-historic” daffodils than historic.  And besides, if you have a really great flower in the collection that’s not a historic daffodil, would it be eligible for other awards if the collection were judged on the Historic scale?
    Mary Lou

  4. Donna Dietsch says:
    I sent this only to Mary Lou by mistake.  Now I have done some additional thinking.
    If you only judge the entries by the historic scale, they would not be eligible for any other award.  If you judge them by the standard scale, they will be handicapped by the requirements.  If you some entries by one scale and others by another, it gets really confusing.  I need to think on this for a whlie more.
    Donna

    Note: forwarded message attached.

  5. Bob Spotts says:

    Donna,
    What you say is not quite right.
    In ADS Shows, if you place a bloom in a class in the Historics section, it is not eligible for awards outside that section (eg, Best in Show). All blooms in the Historics section are to be judged using the Historics Scale of Points.
    But these ADS show rules don’t preclude judging blooms in certain classes outside the Historics section using the Historics scale. Probably it hasn’t been done, but I don’t know of a rule against doing it. It would seem that the Generations Class could be placed outside of the Historics section, allowing exceptionally good blooms to compete for best-in-show. Indeed, the Generations class wouldn’t fit in Historics section because it would have blooms registered later than 1940.
    Judging the same bloom twice using two different scales is confusing. Yet that is what judges do with species in the Miniatures classes. Within their single-stem and three-stem classes for Division 13, they are judged using the Species Scale. But when in collections or when selected to compete for Best Miniature, they are judged using the regular ADS Scale of Points.
    I don’t know of a case where different blooms in the same class are to be judged on different scales.
    Bob

    At 03:44 PM 8/20/2008, Donna Dietsch wrote:

  6. Donna Dietsch says:
    Bob,  What you said is what I meant. Perhaps I did not say it correctly, but I agree with what you say.
    However, I can’t imagine that a flower, which is not in the Historics section, could logically be judged under a scale of points other than that which it would be judged in that section.  If you were to enter a King Alred in the regular section, you could not decide to judge it under the historics scale, you would have to judge it as the others in that class are being judged.  So, there is really no logical way to judge a group of flowers under more than one scale of points, especially considering that a collection as a whole could contain historics and newer specimens along with species. In the miniature collections, even though some specimens could be species, they are judged as if they are miniature hybrids.  It was not entered as a species but as part of a collection of miniature flowers. This is what you said and what I said.  Sorry that you didn’t understand me.  Even though there is no rule against judging any flower as you please, does not mean that you should do that. How about we just use the generations as an exhibit and not put it in competition?
    Donna
    (Interesting exercise in thinking, though.)