In a message dated 5/18/2010 3:21:36 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
writes:
writes:There are few occasion where I would elect to not judge an exhibit. They would be – if I absolutely know that the exhibit is named incorrectly, or if I see that the bloom has been manipulated to correct some fault
Donna should have been a little more specific about “manipulated blooms”–we all manipulate them to an extent, straightening stems, twisting to correct axis balance, etc.
But I think Donna is referring to extreme measures such as trimming a mitten off with scissors or inserting a pipecleaner or wire to straighten a stem. Donna told me once that she usually carries a small pocket magnet to check when she suspects a wire in the stem! You don’t put much over on her!
Bill Lee
I like the small magnet for wires, but is there anything to detect a plastic pipe stem cleaners that is used in daffodils at time.
I think the judges handbook gives the judges the flexibility to judge and accept daffodils placed in the miniature sections regardless if they have been taken off the miniature list as long as they are deminative, graceful, and otherwise miniature. Witness the number of times that Kokopelli 7Y-Y shows up and is judged as a miniature even though it may be shown in the same show as a standard. I know Kokopelli is not historic however it serves as an example, but there seems to be no reason to assume that historic miniatures are taken off the list because they are historics. They were taken off the list because they are considered too large to be on the list. However, large is in the eye of the beholder. I have seen some of the miniature div 5s that are larger than some of the ones that were taken off, but the miniature div 5 are still on the list, eg., Angel’s Breath, Angel’s Whisper, Angel O’Music. Sorry I have to pick on these as I showed all three this year in miniature collections.
Clay
Clay Higgins
Donna & All,
Comment below after ###’s
“There are few occasion where I would elect to not judge an exhibit. They would be – if I absolutely know that the exhibit is named incorrectly,”
#### In such a case would it not be kinder, more exhibitor friendly and educational to simply correct the name and judge as normal. In the British Isles we take this approach and also allow for exhibitors to mark exhibits as ‘Unknown’ if they are not sure and judges will usually supply the name if they know it. This encourages beginners and is not so stringently regulatory. I think judges primary purpose should be to grant awards – not to withhold them.
Brian
I certainly agree with the British approach, one I believe is also followed in New Zealand.
m
I had just thought of having a historic education exhibit. The more I think of it, the more I like it. Wait until all of you see the power point that Paul Botting did. He showed just a glimpse of it at the convention in Murphys. Not much on the so-called miniatures. Fantastic educational tool.
First to Brian, I was taught by Helen Link to be a judge. I think she got this from maybe Carey Quinn, that is that the judges duty is to award ribbons, not to withhold them. Our rules do not say that we may correct an incorrect entry. Our show rules usually say that “all exhibits must be correctly labeled with name or number…” that does not allow us to change the name or anything else. Not that I agree with that… In one show, which was the first for this particular group, I was confronted with a magnificient stem of ‘Jenny’. However it was incorrectly labeled ‘February Silver’. The three judges conferred. The club had a special award for the best cyclamineus in the show. We wanted to give that ribbon. We did change the name on the card and gave it the special award. Afterward, I found the exhibitor and told her what a marvelous flower it was and what we had done to give it the special award. She was furious. Somehow the name February Silver held some meaning for her. So, doing what you said, backfired on me. Da–ed of you do, da–ed if you don’t. Also, the ADS does not have a category for unknown or unnamed daffodils. Some individual clubs put a class in for them, but they can’t be advanced to be considered for any ADS award, even if someone knows the name of it. I agree with that.
Bill and Clay,
Yes I was referring to extreme measures as manipulation. I can spot egg white every time, I can usually see cut off petals. I remember once when someone, entering at our show, cut a new mucro.
Of course, wires, pipe cleaners, etc. are a no, no. I do, however, believe that there may be some people who can do it so well that even I can’t see it. When I give a talk on grooming, I tell the people not to do it until they get so good that it can’t be spotted. If I can’t spot it, you didn’t do it. Otherwise, expect your entry to be “not judged”.
Clay, are you saying that some pipe cleaners have plastic wires? Well, I wouldn’t be able to find that.
If you’re not tired of hearing from me, here is another story on myself. I was going to the show in Dayton. I wanted to enter a Quinn collection. I had just barely enough flowers. At the last minute, I picked a secondary stem of Lavalier. The stem was wobbly, so I thought if I put it in the refrigerator overnight, it might firm up enough. Naturally I forgot I did it. Fortunately, I didn’t need it, but decided to put it into the single stem class. Since there were no other reverse bi-color div 5’s in the show, it won a blue ribbon. On the way home, I suddenly remembered that I had not removed the wire. I was in a panic for several days, wondering if I would get a phone call from Dayton, saying, “We know what you did”. No phone call came, but I never did the wire trick again. Oh yeah, I won the Quinn.
Raining all week and more to come.
Donna