20 comments for “Hamilton Poets”

  1. Thanks for the pictures. I have seen that kind of coloration in wild
    poets. I wonder what the RHS is going to go about division nine color
    coding. I see they have delayed making a decision.
    Harold

    At 04:22 PM 10/14/2011, you wrote:

  2. Hi Harold and others,

    It is interesting that you have seen the poet colourations in the wild. As
    I recall it the sticking point in the RHS debate on poet classification was
    the red rim with some claiming that this was typical of the species. Graeme
    has shown only a small range of the colours Max achieved in his breeding
    programme. We haven’t received the RHS Yearbook as yet but apparently there
    are two articles in it which will form the basis of further discussion.

    It will be interesting and probably as controversial as the ordering off of
    the Welsh captain in last night’s semifinal of the World Rugby Cup. Well
    perhaps not quite as much but we should remember that the daffodil is
    Wales’s national flower!

    With sympathy to Gwyn Davies – you wuz robbed!

    Cheers,

    Peter

    —-

  3. Hello Peter,

    I too have not seen the articles on poets in the RHS Yearbook, but I have always understood that the basic identifying characteristic of poets (daffodils!) is 3 anthers up, 3 anthers down. Those pictured of Max Hamilton’s that you refer to, do not appear to satisfy that criterion.

    I have bred a number of flowers that look like poets with that colouration, but not the 3 up 3 down characteristic. Therefore I have registered tham in division 3. Should these of Max’s not be division 3 also?

    John Pearson

  4. Hi John,

    I agree that the three up and three down is a significant characteristic of
    poets. I have some of Max’s rejects flowering at present and most do have
    that characteristic. Some, though, have three very prominent round anthers
    – I suspect that they are concealing the other anthers.

    Good to hear from you – I hope your health continues to improve.

    Cheers,

    Peter

    _____

  5. I agree with John, that Max’s flowers are lovely division 3s, probably intermediates. I don’t know about the 3 up, 3 down. I’ve seen them in the wild with all 6 sticking way out. Obviously they’re variable. I’m a traditionalist when it comes to poets. I like the nice red or red/orange rim. Otherwise I think you blur the line between divs 3 and 9.

    Harold, you mentioned seeing that coloration (Max’s seedling) in the wild. I’m curious to know whether there was a whole field of that coloration, or just the odd one here and there.

    Mary Lou

  6. Mary Lou:

    It was just the odd one or two but we did find them in several
    different localities.
    Harold

    At 09:08 PM 10/16/2011, Mary Lou Gripshover wrote:

  7. Hi everyone,

    I think the over-riding, most important characteristic of poeticus is the
    red rim. This is the only species of which I’m aware that has red or orange
    in the cup. It’s where the color came from in all the other divisions. I
    think we need to retain that characteristic in the division for poeticus
    cultivars, not remove it. Without it, you have a nice Div. 3 flower.

    Mary Lou

  8. Hello Marylou,

    Will this apply to all other daffodils (eg cyclamineus)?

    —-

  9. Hi Peter,

    I don’t understand what you mean. Div. 6 should show some reflexing, which
    to me is the main characteristic. Graham has probably told you about judging
    in Murphys where I said the best flower in the Div. 6 class was one with not
    much reflexing. But the condition of the other flower, with more reflexing,
    was such that it couldn’t possibly score enough points for first place.
    Torn petals, etc. Not in my mind anyway. :-)

    Mary Lou

  10. Actually Mary-Lou, there are two other species that have orange cups,
    they are Narcissus elegans and N. miniatus. The cup of Sol d’Or is
    probably all from N. elegans it is not a poetaz.
    Does this mean that the wild poets would have to be displayed as
    division 3 flowers?
    Harold

    Harold
    At 03:51 PM 10/18/2011, Mary Lou Gripshover wrote:

  11. I stand corrected, Harold. I should have said MOST of the color in the vast array of hybrids came from poeticus species. Using DaffSeek, I couldn’t find either miniatus or elegans used as parents until very recently, when you and Lawrence Trevanion have been working with them. It would be interesting to know the parentage of Soleil d’Or.

    I don’t understand. Why would wild poets have to be displayed as division 3 flowers. They’d go in Div. 13.

    Mary Lou

  12. About wild ones in Div. 3– I’ve yet to see a wild poet without a red/orange rim, so there’d be no question of it being Div. 13.
    Mary Lou

  13. Here’s another cute wrinkle in the color of a poet.  I have a seedling daffodil
    growing in my garden which has a distinct light buff-orange perianth.  When I
    asked the breeder about it, I was told that there were several more from the
    same cross which showed even more color in the perianth.  Other than that, it is
    all poeticus, the red rimmed cup, the scent,  anthers 3 up, 3 down and its’
    parentage.  So it has to be relegated to the Division 13 midden.  Too bad, it is
    a lovely flower.
    Donna

  15. I say this in fun. Dut this is the perfect example of double standards. If we are going to be so rigid with Div 9, why not all divisions? LOL

    clay

    Clay Higgins
    title=

  16. Could it go in the dramatically under-populated div 12 instead?

    Kathleen Simpson

    —-

  17. Why? It is clearly a poet.

    Where does orange perianth color come from in flowers such as ‘Sabine Hay’,
    or my own ‘Tilden’? (Parental genes.)

    Was this fertile group of diploid poets bred from a poet seed-parent and
    bee-transported pollen from an orange tetraploid 3 such as Sabine Hay? Or
    does the color of Sabine Hay come from ancestral orange poet genes in a
    (now) tetraploid line?

    _____

  18. If you look in the catalogue at the back of Calvert, there is a flower called
    .. ‘Belle Chinoise’ described as “Poeticus. This is a beautiful
    Rose Poeticus, light rose colored perianth with a small crown of dark rose.”
    The flower is illustrated in color in either 1913 or 1914 RHS
    Yearbook. It looks rather like Ambergate in color, which always looks
    to me as a mix or pink and orange. So colored perianths go far back in time.
    Harold

    At 09:27 AM 10/19/2011, Daniel Bellinger wrote:

  19. Hello Sharon (and all),

    I agree with Steve and vote for Option 2. I am positive that if Max was
    sill with us that he would support this view also.

    I reserve judgement on the proposal relating to size of cup. We have
    enough measuring to do at shows without adding yet another one to the mix,
    but I could be convinced.

    Cheers,

    Peter

    —-

  20. Dan, I didn’t say this one was yours until you decided to weigh in on it.  I
    think it is positively a poet and I am glad to have this one.  All div 3’s came
    originally from poets, anyway.
    Donna

Comments are closed.