Mitten thumb

Brian asked for a picture of a flower with nicks or mitten fingers. I usually avoid
photographing flowers with a lot of flaws, so I had to search several years of
photos to find such an example. The attached photo shows some nicks and a
severe thumb. The catch on the edge of the perianth segment probably
occurred very early so that the thumb and the rest of the segment could
develop independently for a considerable amount of time. Does anyone
want to point score this flower?

Kirby Fong

9 comments for “Mitten thumb

  1. Hello Kirby,
    Thanks for rising to the challenge – I’m sure your picture is useful for judging schools. Though nobody seems to have risen to your challenge to point score the flower. I might give it about 3 or 4 out of 10 if required to point it at all.
    Brian

  2. Kirby,
    I would not point score this except on except for demonstration. I’m
    accused of only counting blue ribbons and it is not one of those. I’d be
    hard put to give it a ribbon at all if it was the only one in that category.
    LOL

    Clay

    Clay E. Higgins
     title=
    240-642-0002

    —-

  3. Donna et al,
    I well remember Bill Roese’ being very amusung about ‘Point scoring’ when people said they would not score or give 0 points. Points being allocated to different aspects of the flower he said “the flower had a stem – you gotta give it some points; it’s got colour – you’ve gotta give it some points; it’s got a pose (or do you say poise in USA) – you’ve gotta give it some points: etc. etc.”

    What if you had a 24 bloom class, one entry with 23 perfect score flowers and one like Kirby’s picture, another entry with 24 mediocre low scoring flowers? A hypothetical case, but…
    Which is the more meritorious exhibit?
    Which best demonstrates good cultivation?
    Which best shows the potential of modern dfaffodils?
    Which is most likely to attract new recruits to daffodil growing ?
    Brian

  4. I would not try to score this one either,however I am interested in how I should point an otherwise great flower with sucha deformity, similarly for splits in the cup-should they be disqualified as deformed?John Beck
    >

  5. John,
    An ADS judge does not disqualify an entry.  They simply do not judge it.  You
    know that.
    I doubt that anyone would even judge this bloom because it will not get a third
    place.

    Three days before Christmas and we are talking daffodils.  Don’t you just love
    it?  Merry Christmas to everyone!!
    Donna Dietsch

     

  6. I was glad to see the discussion about mitten thumbs ( also heard: mitten hands).

    When I was discussing judge training a couple of years ago (seems like eons) I used this term as an example of something which a judge should know but which wasn’t in any of the training materials nor in any readily available source. One could make a list of terminology and concepts which seem to be routine to those in the know but which are basically inaccessible or, at least, unreferenced to those not already in the know.

    One of the previous responses together with Kirby’s photo, properly referenced or indexed on a website or wiki would remedy the shortcoming with this and many other nuggets of useful, interesting, and arcane information.

    George Dorner

    Sent from my iPad

  7. Without a minute’s hesitation I would give the blue to the 23 great ones and one loser! The longer I am involved in exhibiting daffodils and all that goes with it, the more I feel we have a tremendous responsibility to our non-member, not-yet-exhibitor public. They don’t understand these bits of rulings, and it turns them off about daffodil shows.
    Besides, to Brian’s four questions, the 23/1 wins—as well as on the mathematics!!!!!!!!!!!
    Loyce McKenzie

    Merry Christmas, and may all of you have daffodils already blooming.

    —-

  8. Ok Brian,
    I will attempt to answer your questions and will answer them as I would judge
    them.
    The most meritorious exhibit is the 23 good and one bad exhibit.  The one that
    gets the blue ribbon is the 24 mediocre blooms, that is, provided they all score
    90 anyway.  If they do not, it gets put in second place.  Now, my problem is
    whether I should  give the award to an exhibit that has one bloom that does not
    score 90 and really scores much less than that.  We now can judge the exhibit as
    a whole instead of singling out that one bad flower.  But, if it does not score
    90 or more, the entire exhibit fails, in any case.  Before this, we had to judge
    the entire exhibit on the merits of the worst bloom in it.  Actually I was
    caught by that at one show in Cincinnati.  I hope Mary Lou will not be upset
    with this story.  Hers was the exhibit with one bad flower and 23 lovely blue
    ribbon ones.  Its’ fault was extreme crepiness.  I would have had a hard time
    justifying the top prize and could have only if no other exhibit was competing
    with it.  But one was.  This one had blooms which were all pretty good but many
    would have scored in the low to mid  90’s.  None of these blooms scored less
    that that crepy bloom.  As much as I wanted to give the award to the one Mary
    Lou had entered,  under the rules that prevailed at the time, had to give it to
    the other exhibit.  I did not know who entered either exhibit.  I did apologise
    to Mary Lou when I found out it was her exhibit, but since she is a good
    exhibitor, she knew that bloom was on the edge of 90 points.

    Neither the potential of modern daffodils nor attracting new recruits is a
    consideration when judging or point scoring.  These items do not come into play
    and never should.
    The potential of modern daffodils is on display at every show.  I can’t remember
    many shows where I do not hear someone say that they didn’t know there were so
    many different ones.
    Don’t be so sure that the intricacies of judging will turn off potential
    exhibitors.  It didn’t do it to me.  I just wanted to figure out how to win.  I
    watched other people, asked questions and tried out what I learned until I could
    do it.  People are more likely to be turned off because no one talks to them, or
    they see all the exhibitors sitting in a huddle in the corner, and they think
    they will not be welcomed into the “in group”.  Something being difficult to do
    does not turn off as many people as unfriendliness does.  Some people thrive on
    challenges.  Some give up because they do not want to learn.  Top notch
    exhibition requires top notch ability.  Let people know that they really can do
    it.  Then if they decide not to join, you have not lost much, just $5.00 a year
    in dues and another name on your roster.  That name will be gone in a couple of
    years when they decide they are not getting much from their dues.  Spend your
    vaulable time nurturing the ones who want to know how to win a ribbon.
    I object to the children’s schools dumbing down the lessons to the lowest common
    denominator.  Daffodil exhibiting does not need to do that as well.

    Ok.  Off the soapbox.
    Merry Christmas to all!  Back to baking cookies.
    Donna

  9. I’m not upset with Donna’s story. I was taught in Judging School that a collection is only as good as its worst flower. If one was crepey and didn’t score high enough, then Donna was right to give the ribbon to the other collection.

    Mary Lou

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