Hello! I’m new to the daffodil scene and am wondering in the hybridizing of daffs does anybody grow them in pots that they might be easily placed in a convienient location ( avoiding inclimant weather ) and avoiding any external pollinazation via alternative means? Do it in a greenhouse seting!
On another note vernalization any needed for the seeds and how long for the bulbs after a period of dormancy occurs?
Finally any experience of growing under lights — thus speeding up the growing process by skipping at least a year or two for flower formations?
Any help would be appreciated.
thank you
later beetle
Hi Doug,
All VERY good questions. Thanks for your posting. As a person most interested in Daffodils hybridizing, I believe that growing in a greenhouse offers one tremendous advantage for hybridizers. A greenhouse allows extended access to both pollen and (hopefully) stigmas over a much longer time frame versus outdoor growing alone.
I personally have not found that it speeds things up in terms of seed to flowering and vernalization requirements. Also I find that It is much nicer and more convenient to tend pots of early flowering Miniatures and species inside at bench level as opposed to laying down in a wet, cold, icy row outdoors to either harvest pollen or attempt to make a cross.
It seems to me that the biggest challenge in my climate that we amateur, hobbiest greenhouse growers face is keeping the environment cool enough during both summer and winter. That is the opposite of what many believe. Maintaining, cool, moist, even growth can really be an issue here. A bright, sunny day in January with snow on the ground and air temperatures in the low 30’s(F) can quickly raise the greenhouse temperature into the 80’s(F) with very low humidity. It always seems weird to me to see vents wide, the swamp coolers chugging away, and fans running full tilt on a cold, sunny, dry, January day.
Seed Vernalization – Optimum seems to be sown dry, warm for two to three months, followed by cool/cold wetb for three to four months, followed by slowly rising temps for a few months but still cool and wet. This followed by a dry, warm dormancy. Some species and Miniatures may come more quickly, but in general, four to six years from seed to maiden bloom is about what it takes. Bulb vernalization seems to be highly individualistic and cultivar related. Some things force easily and others may not respond too well or at all. The largest commercial nurseries that force for the early pot plant trade regularly pre-chill and chill their greenhouses. They carefully control the chilling requirements for growth. This is a brutally expensive proposition.
I don’t have too much experience growing under lights but from what I’ve read, light intensity and duration doesn’t seem to have a huge impact.
Best of luck and please do let us know how things go! Please feel free to ask any further questions.
Steve
Hi Steve Thank you for your response(s). Several of my question were far too broad and thus the answers somewhat unclear to me ( my fault not yours ). Here goes.
If one grows bulbs in the fall Sept. in pots and then allows them to freeze ( via mother nature ) then takes them to the freezer to bring them out in April to set in the non heated greenhouse is this an approach that would work?
Seed collected in June, allowing the pod to naturally open but cut from the scape then the seed stored in coin envelopes ( allowed to dry for 1-2 wks ) Can these seeds be planted then or do they need a vernilization period. If so how long and what temp.
If I planted in Nov. ( after a week of being in cool temp 50 degrees and taken out of the freezer ) under lights inside and then take outside in May to grown til whenever…. The question is do the daffs go dormit automatically after 3 + months or continue to grow that first year? In hosta we can get an extra years growth because they continue to grow til that fall? Thus the question?
Last question for this round Are bulbs better kept at a temp above freezing or is freezing them OK.
later beetle
Doug,
Firstly and maybe most important! Daffodil bulbs can NOT FREEZE SOLID!!! If the basal plate freezes solid, the bulb dies or is dead. Chilling and cold is good, freezing is not.
The idea of bringing in pots of daffodils in late winter or early spring works well. One can often have blooms well ahead of outdoors. My suggestion would either be to plunge the pots outside up to their rim and mulch heavily or put the pots in an unheated or lightly heated garage, porch, etc. where the temperatures are kept above freezing. Move them into the greenhouse as foliage tips show.
I believe that shelling directly from the ripened pod into seedbeds or pots gives the highest percentage of germination. I now try and sow my seed by late June or early July outdoors and let nature take its course. That generally means a dry, warm summer followed by a wet, cool fall. For me, here in my climate, it is most unusual to see any seedlings emerge before the next spring. Grant Mitsch always said to make certain that seed was ALWAYS planted by Labor Day (first week of September in the USA). You certainly can plant later but the percentage of delayed germination (delayed a full year) seems to increase dramatically.
I understand what you are trying to accomplish in speeding growth. Unlike Hosta, Daylilys and just about every other plant family that comes easily to mind, Amaryllidace (of which Narcissus is a genus) have not yielded to the technique of Tissue Culture. Some feel that the strong dormancy requirements are a component part of this failure. Our friends in Holland have devoted decades of research and invested tens of millions of dollars trying to beat the problem (opportunity) but so far, propagation methods like twin scaling and parting give far higher yields and more predictable results. It’s an unusual genus with its own specific requirements.
It isn’t just about keeping the leaves green over summer. The genus is susceptible to Fusarium oxysporum or basal rot. Fusarium has two key requirements to grow. First is soil temperatures above 57 (F) and the second is moisture. Watering bulbs in the heat of summer is a recipe for disaster. The bulbs really require a dry, warm summer to ripen the bulb and initiate the nascent bud deep within the bulb. This was why I touched on chilling requirements in the previous comment.
If you saw the countryside in Spain (just as an example) where Narcissus grow wild. During summer it looks as if it hasn’t rained there since the last ice age. Really and I’m not kidding. Desolate, hot, and dry. I don’t mean to discourage or be the bearer of bad tidings but I don’t know of any way to speed seedlings along other than to give them optimum conditions.
Keep the questions and ideas coming!
Steve