Several people have asked me about the name I use. Alvarez and Fernandez Casas raised this plant to species level and applied the name lusitanicus a few years ago (2000). Before that it was called N. triandrus var. aurantiacus or N. triandrus var. concolor. The RHS considers the correct name to be N. triandrus subsp. lusitanicus. This is one occasion that I agree with Fernandez Casas and feel the RHS is incorrect. Narcissus lusitanicus should not be confused with the dark yellow forms of N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus. I have never seen a pallidulus with the intensity of color that occurs in lustitanicus and once spent a spring looking for intensely yellow pallidulus forms, although sometimes according to Mary Lou the two types occur together but I have not seen that. Narcissus lusitanicus is the earliest of the group to flower, usually a month, before the others and has very slender green, never glaucous leaves. The average flowers are much smaller than the average size for pallidulus or triandrus triandrus and usually are only one to the stem. My guess is that when the scientists get around to looking at their genes they will find that pallidulus originated as the hybrid between triandrus triandrus and lusitanicus. In his classic paper based on chromosome morphology A. Fernandes (1975) also considered N. lusitanicus a good species although he called it N. concolor. Unfortunately that name is inadmissable having been used earlier for something else.
I am sure this is more than anyone wanted to read!
Harold
Mary Lou:
This is a very interesting photo. My various plants of N. lusitanicus over the many years, never have such robust leaves.
Harold
At 06:50 PM 1/9/2010, Mary Lou Gripshover wrote:
Harald, et al,
the paper from Ben Zonneveld supports your theory and he list N. lusitanicus as a seperate species with a different DNA content (weight). With N. lusitanicus at 16.9pg, N. pallidulus at 18.1pg and N. triandrus at 19.1pg, your theory of N. pallidulus being an ancient hybrid is well supported. He considers all to be established species.
The interesting physical differences between the species, other than those listed by Harald, should make it relatively simple to sort them in cultivation, with both N. lusitanicus and N. pallidulus having leaf widths of 2mm, while N. triandrus has 4mm wide leaves. The flowers of N. pallidulus are pale yellow, N. lusitanicus deep yellow, while N. triandrus can have bi-colour, concolour or white flowers and seems to show the most variance. Mind you, I’ve never seen wild populations and mixed populations have been observed. Hybrid swarms may be common. In any case, via these differences, one can at least give plants a good name.
His paper is an interesting approach to understanding genetics and the method is a great way to sort entities into specific taxa for further study. If some of you haven’t yet read it, it can be read or downloaded from the ADS site. Here is a direct link.
http://www.daffodilusa.org/pdfs/systematicvalueofnucleardna.pdf
I found one needs to read it quite a few times to truly appreciate the analysis of the genus. I find it a great reference.
I had discussed the method briefly with Ben about 4 years ago, when he started the project, as I was trying to make some sense of Hemerocallis species at the time. The proplem is, as always, having good provenance of the test plants. With Hemerocallis, this was close to impossible and still is today, as the most come from China, Korea and Japan, where they have long been cultured. True ‘species’ are problematic. Re-doing Ben’s work with known populations would be an interesting follow-up to his work. Especially with the jonquilla group, as the DNA weights are very close. Additional work with chromosome counts (especially for B chromosomes and fragments) and analysis of the karyotype would bring quite a bit more light into the area. I always ask myself, how much does one NEED to know, in order to be a successful hybridizer (profi or hobbiist). With the work already published, I find one can certainly base an excellent program founded on sound science. It will save one from many futile crosses and help one understand why a specific cross didn’t seem to take. As well as understanding the exceptions to the current rules.
Jamie Vande
Cologne
Germany
Zone 8
Harold Koopowitz schrieb:
" type="cite">Several people have asked me about the name I use. Alvarez and Fernandez Casas raised this plant to species level and applied the name lusitanicus a few years ago (2000). Before that it was called N. triandrus var. aurantiacus or N. triandrus var. concolor. The RHS considers the correct name to be N. triandrus subsp. lusitanicus. This is one occasion that I agree with Fernandez Casas and feel the RHS is incorrect. Narcissus lusitanicus should not be confused with the dark yellow forms of N. triandrus subsp. pallidulus. I have never seen a pallidulus with the intensity of color that occurs in lustitanicus and once spent a spring looking for intensely yellow pallidulus forms, although sometimes according to Mary Lou the two types occur together but I have not seen that. Narcissus lusitanicus is the earliest of the group to flower, usually a month, before the others and has very slender green, never glaucous leaves. The average flowers are much smaller than the average size for pallidulus or triandrus triandrus and usually are only one to the stem. My guess is that when the scientists get around to looking at their genes they will find that pallidulus originated as the hybrid between triandrus triandrus and lusitanicus. In his classic paper based on chromosome morphology A. Fernandes (1975) also considered N. lusitanicus a good species although he called it N. concolor. Unfortunately that name is inadmissable having been used earlier for something else.
I am sure this is more than anyone wanted to read!
Harold
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Thank you, Jamie.
I checked the lusitanicus leaves this morning. They all have single terete leaves not flattened like Mary Lou’s picture and less than 2 mm wide. I wonder if perhaps the flowers in Mary Lou’s wonderful photo are of a hybrid swarm?
Harold
At 02:41 AM 1/10/2010, Jamie Vande wrote:
Mary Lou:
These both have the typical lusitanicus leaves which sprawl and are not erect like the first photo.
Harold
At 12:02 PM 1/10/2010, Mary Lou Gripshover wrote:
First Vice President
American Daffodil Society
http://www.daffodilusa.org