For my entire time of hybridizing daffodils, I never planted the freshly harvested seed right away. I always waited until fall, usually October. From comments I have heard (read), many hybridizers plant their seed soon after harvesting as they feel that they get better germination, better growth the first year, etc. As I only made two crosses this year, I decided to plant the seed immediately. Well, actually I will plant the seed from the second cross tomorrow. The two crosses were ‘Pink China’ 2 W-P X N. jonquilla (approximately 90 seed from eight pods) and ‘High Cotton’ X N. jonquilla (second cross [approximately 40 – 45 seed from three pods]). So, do you think that my planting the seed immediately upon harvesting the pods will make a difference?
Ted
I’ve been picking seed for just 5 years and I think they get picked in Late May Early June and do not make it into pots until Sept or Oct. I let the pots sit outside to get rain and they are brought into a unheated green house until they sprout in Feb. I’m in Washington State on the West side where 17 Deg F is about as cold as it gets. When I left the pots with seed outside they did not sprout the first year. I think they will sprout when they feel like it. Plant now I bet they do not come up till Fall but who knows?
I plant them after making sure the seedcoats dry for a week or two. I hope to get them planted by the end of August here in Minnesota. Most of the seeds germinate the following spring. It seems that they prefer a cooler spot in the Summer but bright conditions with still air. I plant in raised beds. If I delay planting a month that is late September, theseeds sporadicallly sprout over the next three years. the bulbs show three populations of bulb sizes after the largest graduate to the open beds after four years.
Ted,
I’ve tried both ways. I’m now planting a couple weeks after I harvest as I find the seed start coming up in December when I do that. When I wait until Sept or Oct, they come up usually after the other daffodils come up.
Mike, you sort of confused me about panted them a couple weeks after they dry and saying the end of August at the same time. Are you saying that the season is so late in Minnesota that the seeds are harvested in August?
Clay
Hi Ted,
Below is the Narcissus entry from Dr. Norman Deno’s handbook “Seed Germination – Theory and Practice”. This invaluable product of a lifetime of research is now available as a free download from the USDA. I think you’ll find better results by planting seed as it ripens. Deno’s entry bears this out.
Narcissus (Amaryllidaceae). Seed from garden hybrids germ. largely at 40. Fresh seed germ. 70-40(75% in 2-5 w) and 40(60% in 6-10 w)-70-40-7040(20%). A second sample of fresh seed gave the same behavior when sown at 70 but a somewhat different behavior when sown at 40 as shown by 40-70-40(5%)-70-40(90% in 2-4 w). There was evidence that the seed deteriorated in DS and that the deterioration was slower at 40 than at 70. Typical data is 40(11%)-70-40(89%) and 70- 40(20%) for seed DS 6 m at 40 and 40(14%)-70-40(65%) and 70-40(0-20%) for seed DS 6 m at 70. The seedlings must be kept at 40 until the 3 m cycle at 40 is complete in order for the hypogeal leaf development to be vigorous on shifting to 70.
I generally harvest seeds in July. Seven weeks from crossing. I am now at Midseason withjust over 1/2 of my daffodils blooming. I will be crossing into June this year with seed set and harvest in Late July. Last year we had seed in June. I waited until July to start planting. This year my earliest crosses will wait about a month out of their pods and the last crosses barely 1-2 weeks if I am on top of things.
I get them sorted and then begin planting. In late July or early August. I hope to get this done early, But tis has never happened. As time permits things take me until August to get them done. If I start in Late August, I will get them done in September. I also attempted to grow the seedlings in the greenhouse, but low ligt levels could not compete with the bulb weight increase outside. Most everything that is Hardy will go outside including most of the miniature crosses.
Ted, it sounds as if you are about to have a hands-on chance to find out! You and I often argue about the difference between science and old wives tales, and I say, “If you take proper notes, it’s science.”
Dr. Bender, later on, came to recommending planting at once, and maybe gaining a year; he was one I didn’t argue with.
Loyce
A while ago, when the hybridizers robin was written by hand and typewriter, and sent around by US mail, we discussed when to plant the seed. The consensus was that since the plant will drop its’ seed to the ground as soon as they are ripe, then we should do the same. Dr. Bill was one of the ones who was emphatic about early planting. “Conestoga” came to us in that way, so the proof is in the pudding, I say. Since then, I have always planted early.
Ted, you were in the robin back then. Did you just ignore Bill’s advice, or just forgot it? Wasn’t that an absolutely great time? We were some of the young pups then and got to talk to the greatest hybridizers of the 20th century. Wow! Sometimes I have to pinch myself when I think that they were our friends.
Steve, translate that for me. I think he is trying to tell us when to plant, but I can’t figure out which one it is. (assuming that 40 and 70 are degrees) My seeds are still developing, so I could try early and late planting.
Donna
Donna,
I was with the “New Hybridizer’s Group” with Laverne Brusven back in the old days. I miss the written “round” robins as we were obliged to add to the Robin and send it along. I thought we learned a lot that way. I wish that when Leone puts out her hybridizer’s list, we were still obligated to respond with our own “….” attempts at hybridizing. I call mine pathetic, but everyone may not feel that way.
Clay
Yes, Donna, I forgot Dr. Bender’s advice about planting seed right away. He really was a mentor to me in many ways. Well, I heeded his advice this year with the seed from my two crosses planted soon after harvesting. Why so few crosses? Well, I have so many seedlings in the pipeline that I am beginning to realize that I am going to give more time and effort to take care of them. I will continue to make new crosses each year; however, I hope to give more thought to the crosses I make, rather than just making crosses on impulse!
Ted
Back to you, Ted,
In 2011, since I had so many problems, I planted my seed in mid September. Right now I am digging up those two year old seedlings and find that many of them are only one year old. They germinated this year instead of last year. I am going to prepare the seed bed right away so that I can plant as soon as the seeds are all ripe. I usually keep the seed bed moist, not wet, all summer with some shade from any weeds that grow. If I am ambitious, I toss some fine mulch on the bed and pull out the weeds.
You are right about more thoughtful crosses not more crosses to have to tend. I will take your advice on that.
Donna