Tom Stettner, Ohio

ID Please

April 8, 2008

Categories: Daffodil Types, Standards

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Daffnet: This double is unknown and has the same form every year. Mostly green backed very narrow sepals. Looking a little like a more rounded form of rip van winkle, I’m not sure at all what to tell my friend.
can anyone help here?..

4 responses to “ID Please”

  1. David Liedlich says:


    That looks like Van Sion, a.k.a. Telamonius Plenus.  Check it on Daffseek, the appearance can be variable with this flower.

    Dave Liedlich

  2. Marilyn Howe says:

    Hi Tom,
    I found a drawing similar in Olaf Rudbeck’s Campi Elysii (1701), Page 79 Figure XI which he describes as Narcissus flore pleno variegato. Narcissus sepentrionalis flore pleno luteo, Eyst. Their also some Gothic Script, which is hard to read. Brotug nidrigbubbel gul Narciss
    I do not know if anyone ever applied a fancy name to the plant. Your plant looks very similar to the drawing.
    Marilynn Howe

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  3. J Drew Mc Farland says:

    I was asking the same question last year, and I think Dave is correct, although I’m very intrigued by Marylynn’s reference and wonder if that’s yet another name/form.
    This photo I took earlier this evening, and is of the exact same clump as the photo of mine taken last year posted on Daffseek.  Although some characteristics are similar, it’s hard to say it’s the same flower, but obviously it is and has likely been blooming here on my farm for a hundred years or more.  From what I’ve seen posted by the experts on here, it seems Van Sion varies also by conditions and location as is clear from the other Daffseek postings. 
    I do wonder however if in fact there are distinct varying forms with some characteristics more common.  E.g. mine tend to take on what I’d call a star-like form, your example rounder and tighter.  I’ve been told that T.P. is infertile and if so, obviously variations have not be developed by self propogation.  Hopefully someone more knowledable (if they aren’t all at Richmond already) may have a thought.
    Drew Mc Farland
    Granville, Ohio

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  4. Brian Duncan, Northern Ireland Brian Duncan says:

    I think you could find literally hundreds of variations of Van Sion. I do not have many but they can be different each year. Sometimes with a clearly defined trumpet that is doubled inside ranging to full doubling with intermediate forms. I’ve seen forms exhibited in Holland from the island of Texel which were pretty consistently “filled trumpets” but I was told that even with these the form would not be consistent if planted elsewhere.
    Like you I thought Van Sion was sterile but now I know Van Sion can be fertile, if you find pollen – I have several attractive little double miniature seedlings from N. asturiensis x N. telamonius plenus flowering for the first time. The doubling gene seems to be pretty dominant, based on my very small sample – 5 out of 6 were double!
    However, I have not observed N. tele. plenus with a pistil so it may be that it never sets seed. But if planted amongst other old N. pseudonarcissus it is likely that the bees will carry some pollen around and create slightly different double forms.
    Even modern doubles can be variable from season to season – some have good years and some not so good and the greening factor often seen on Van Sion is, I think, weather related as it is on other doubles.