re Poeticus

Hello all,

It would appear a lot of the debate on daffnet over the last five or six years maybe due to a change I suggested to the Royal Horticultural Society’s Daffodil and Tulip Committee on Poeticus classification in the mid 1990’s.

The suggestion, at the time, was that Poeticus with wholly red crowns be accepted in the classification as well as crowns of green and yellow centre and a red rim.

The 1969 RHS Classified List and International Register:
The classification reads: Division 9 Poeticus Narcissi of Garden Origin
Distinguishing characters: Characteristics of the Narcissus poeticus group without admixture of any other.

The classification in the 1989 RHS International Daffodil Checklist reads:
Division 9 – Poeticus Daffodils of Garden Origin
“Characteristics of the N. poeticus group without admixture of any other: usually one flower to a stem; perianth segments pure white; corona usually disc-shaped, with a green or yellow centre and a red rim; flowers fragrant”

The definition in the 1998 RHS The International Register and Classified List reads:
Division 9 – Poeticus Daffodil Cultivars
“Characteristics of the N. poeticus group: usually one flower to a stem; perianth segments pure white; corona very short or disc-shaped; usually with a green and/or yellow centre and a red rim, but sometimes of a single colour; flowers usually fragrant.”

It is this last definition that has opened up the proverbial can of worms!!! I asked in my submission that the RHS accept a Poeticus with a wholly red eye to be included in the classification. The RHS at the time I believe may have made a mistake by including a crown of a single colour instead it should have read a crown of wholly red colouring. I well documented at the time to the RHS how the Rev. G.H. Engleheart writing a chapter titled “The Wild Sources of Cultivated Daffodils” in Albert F Calvert’s book, ‘Daffodil Growing for Pleasure and Profit’ 1929 page 231 where he stated:- “The late Mr James Allen, of Shepton Mallet, spent several seasons while resident at Luchon, in making careful selections from the breadths of N. poeticus, and gave me bulbs of several fine varieties, some with wholly red eyes. These proved difficult to maintain in cultivation, but they gave character in cross-breeding to some of my poeticus now in commerce”.

Also Guy L. Wilson’s catalogue of 1950 on page 28 lists eight poeticus cultivars, six of them having wholly red eyes.

While it maybe conceded that the idea of bringing new colours into poeticus daffodils maybe controversial, red rimmed and red eyed cultivars have an absolute right to be in the classification.

I understand Brian Duncan is proposing that the poeticus classification be based on crown length as against perianth length, this is a proportional system as our division 3’s, 2’s and 1’s are based on at present. It will for the first time give daffodil growers a defining line between division 9 and division 3. For sure, there will always be borderline cases, as happens with the other divisions. It has to be recognised that when humans try to define nature, no perfect system will ever be found. I do hope that Brian’s proportional system, that is much better than anything we have had in the past, will be accepted by all daffodil fanciers.

While it may be proposed that new crown colours be accepted, as already stated, this is more controversial. I do hope that this matter is decided by a group of individuals who know something of the history of poeticus daffodils also that they may have grown, raised and exhibited division 9’s.

The poeticus group has suffered over the years by a number of myths. One of course has been discussed in previous postings that they can only have pollen anthers that are unequal, this is patently not true, pollen anthers in some of the species are subequal. Another myth by some judges is that the perianth segments are to be rounded. In fact, poeticus species would possibly have the widest range of perianth segment shape than any other division of the daffodil. Both petals and sepals would cover almost all the shapes illustrated on page 16 of the 2008 International Daffodil Register and Classified List. While rounded or ovate segments may look more elegant this does not mean that the other shapes should be penalised in any way when judging poeticus. Judges should be looking for a perianth of reasonable substance, good texture without ribbing and of a sparkling frosty white colour, also with reasonable overlap. There is also a myth about size: some require poeticus to only be of a smaller size, I personally think this is wrong, any size should be acceptable. More so if the proportional sizing of poeticus, that is crown to perianth length, comes into being.

Poeticus daffodils, without doubt, are some of the most delightful of all. I am puzzled why some do not even grow them, yet are quite vocal at shows as to what poeticus daffodils should be.

Cheers,
John

John A. Hunter
195 Patons Road
R.D.1 Richmond
Nelson
New Zealand
Phone 64 3 544 0011