The current Daffnet is a web forum for people interested in growing, showing, hybridizing, or photographing daffodils.
The previous version of Daffnet was an email mailing-list forum which had the one advantage of automatically delivering new messages, but had many more limitations. Members frequently had overflowed mailboxes during daffodil blooming season, could only send small photos, and the archives of previous messages was very poor.
About half of the members of the old mailing list Daffnet requested reminder messages be emailed to them when new content is posted on the new web forum.
There has been some mis-understanding from time-to-time about what these messages are:
1. First and a very important point is these messages are not really Daffnet. Daffnet is a web forum accessed using your web browser like Internet Explorer, Firefox, Google Chrome, or Apple Safari. These messages are sent as reminders of activity on the forum. Most Daffnet forum members do not choose to see these email reminder messages at all.
2. The real Daffnet is the web site https://daffnet.org/ which you can bookmark to see the web forum with just one mouse-click.
3. The reminder messages are excerpts and only show partial content of the original web forum post of comments. One thumbnail photo was shown even though many web forum messages have several photos. Many email programs block messages that have photos with external links, so we purposely made the photos in the reminder messages as non-clickable.
4. Today, I modified the Daffnet reminder messages to add some additional notes to help direct people to the real Daffnet. I also made the decision to remove the thumbnail photos, because that has been the greatest source of confusion.
5. When we introduced the new Daffnet, we emailed several chapters of instructions to the mailing-list members starting on August 26, 2012. Just search your email from that date up to a month later, and you should find three chapters of instructions. There are also help pages on the Daffnet web forum site under the title “Help”.
6. Just a quick summary about the current web forum Daffnet:
a) If you only want to read messages, you don’t need to register and become a member.
b) If you want to create new subjects or comment on other people’s messages, you will need to register and become a member.
c) All new messages (“Posts” and “Comments”) are created using your web browser while you are logged on at https://daffnet.org/
d) Comments are your way to respond, reply, or comment on (your own or) other people’s Posts. Comments are only text based.
e) Some members make comments and also create new Posts. Posts can be used to create new subjects, to start new threads or themes, and must be used to add new photos or other media.
7. The web forum was ‘seeded” with most of the messages from the old Daffnet mailing list dating back to 2003. Even though it might appear more complicated than the old mailing-list, there is much more accessible content than the old system. There is no photo size limit like the old system and no one’s email box overflows during daffodil season.
Dear Ben,
You well know that I am a computer dinosaur. I wish I could find the new system as easy as the previous but I find that I have to make several ‘clicks’ with a lot of waiting time to get whole messages and photographs – the initial trigger needs to be very interesting or enticing for me to proceed through all the procedures. You’ve kindly tried to help guide me/us through the new procedures but i confess that I’ve failed to make it easy for myself. I recognise that several, especially Steve have mastered the new system, and I’d like to find a way to make it as quick and instant and as easy to respond as with the old straight e-mail system. I’ sure this is not what you want to hear, but by suggesting that you have been making changes to make it easier, perhaps I am not the only one who has been having difficulties in getting involved as previously.
I appreciate the points about archiving but I wonder how many of us do ‘go back’ – and indeed if a lot of the postings are worth going back to? This may bring howls of protest – that I have no sense of history!?
Please forgive these comments, I do realise that most of the difficulties are due to my computer inadequacies rather than the system – maybe in time I’ll be able to get back to a level of response and participation as previously.
Brian
Thank you Brian, may I join your computor dinasauer group? I have wi-fi but it takes several clicks and minutes to get to the real message. I am not very facile either but “lovin” daffodils.
Nancy
Me too – I have lots of fun trying to comment – can’t seem to stay logged in or remember how to get in, and often just scan and delete rather than try to read the whole message. You’ve got some company, Brian!
It sounds like you may all be using the email reminders you receive in your mailbox to access Daffnet and that would add layers of clicking and waiting. I have made daffnet.org my home page in my web browser, so that when I start up Firefox, it goes directly to Daffnet. Since I’ve done this and daffnet opens every time I get on the internet, I don’t need the email reminders, so there is nothing I need to “scan and delete.” When I get on Daffnet I can see all the latest postings and, if the one on the bottom of page 1 is not one I’ve seen, I’ll go back to the next page of the postings until I come to a message I’ve read already then I check out the Comments list to see if there are comments I’d like to read.
I hope no one will be hesitant to post test messages or to give posting photos a try–with Ben’s suggestions (and using the Help files), we should all be able to catch on. Keep trying, please! This does have the capability of expanding our network of readers and contributors.
A change, no matter how large or small, can be uncomfortable. Moving Daffnet from an email forum to a web forum was a very big change. However, in many ways, I consider it a success. The Daffnet email mailing-list was not growing and was holding steady at around 400 members. Now rather than 400 members reading our discussions and seeing our photos, thousands of people can.
So far in 2013, there have been over 10,000 unique visitors who came to Daffnet.org and enjoyed or learned from our discussions. When I say unique, I mean that even though you and I look at Daffnet.org more than once during the month, each of us is counted as only one unique visitor for that time period. There are already more than twenty-five (25) times the number of readers of our daffodil discussions than we ever had for our mailing-list forum. I have to believe we are doing something right if we can provide a means for more people in the world to learn and appreciate daffodils.
Also, like the email Daffnet, many new people sign up for Daffnet.org and just want to enjoy reading posts until someday, they have something to say. We have already signed up about sixty-five new Daffnet web forum members. These members do not want email reminders about Daffnet forum activity because they signed up for a web forum and do not miss the mailing-list version, a facility they never used.
We have had the pleasure of giving demonstrations of Daffnet.org and receiving feedback. Truthfully, the feedback is mixed, but mostly people appreciate the functionality of the new system where they can see all the comments for one topic in the one page and secondly, not have the email box “swamped” during both hemispheres’ show seasons. The most frequently asked question…”Why?” Our response…to get the word out to more people about daffodils. One of the charters of the ADS and other daffodil societies is to help educate the public on daffodils. This new web forum helps meet that goal.
Of the email based daffnet, more than one hundred members asked to be removed from the mailing list, because they found it easier to go directly to the website and also wanted to eliminate this heavy email traffic going to their mail boxes. Researchers and authors have already used our archive searches and older Daffnet messages while preparing articles and lectures. Others, are “history buffs” and like to go back to the older messages because they often discuss contemporary subjects and issues.
The majority of our web forum members has mastered how to make comments to other people’s posts. The most difficult step for some members is creating new posts with photos. We are working on simplifying some of the steps needed for people that prefer posting by mailing-list.
One thing we would like to emphasize is that it is all right to try things, make mistakes, make corrections, delete a message and try again. We are all human here and the Internet is full of spelling and typing errors.
Perhaps as Becky Fox Matthews said, you are making things too complicated by waiting for email messages, then taking extra steps to access the web site. I hope everyone realizes you don’t have to wait for email messages; you can simply bookmark the page or set it as “your Homepage” to point your browser to http://daffnet.org/ .
We miss the very important contributions of our mailing-list members. Why not try things and see what works?
Have you thought about adding daffnet to your “favorites” list? Internet Explorer and Google’s Chrome both allow you to add to your favorites. That way, when you open your internet browser, you can click on daffnet. You can also get to the current daffnet comment by clicking on it when you get the notice in your email. Click on the link, and it will take you to the comment and the original post. You will probably have to read the original post and scroll down to the comment. If you want to comment, you’ll have to login.
When you login, you can click the box so that the program will remember your password. Very convenient, or I’d have to be looking it up each time I try to login.
Mary Lou
I consider myself computer knowledgeable. Daffnet consistently logs me out after a few days absence. I have checked the box asking the site to remember me. I do not assent to the popup box on my computer which asks whether I want Chrome to remember the password. I want Daffnet to keep me logged in. I can see why others have problems.
On the up side, we have the ability to have such useful posts as Ben’s from the miniatures collection Harold and Marilyn put up at the Alden Lane show two weeks ago, with portrait shots of all 24 blooms in one neat message. Kirby is posting show results in fewer separate messages based on categories. These posts would not have been possible with the former email forum, and are truly useful and convenient.
There’s also the issue that Ben and Nancy had a terrific amount of upkeep on the email forum, on an ongoing basis. For their sakes, I am trying to use the new system, despite my general resistance to change.
Dear All,
Firstly I must admit that I am new to Daffnet and didn’t experience the old Email based system. I am therefore unable to make a true comparsion. I do however believe that Daffnet as a whole is a fantastic resource and meeting place for people to discuss, share and appreciate the wonderful daffodil.
I believe Nancy and Ben have done a fantastic job of managing and creating such a worthwhile resource. Creating something new and as detailed as a website that allows access and interaction for people throughout the world can’t be easy, and credit and appreciation must go out to them both and anyone else involved.
Difficulties arise with anything new and Nancy has always been on hand to guide and explain any errors that members have had.
I understand that at the US Convention there will be a workshop to allow members the opportunity to get a better understanding of how to use the system, and I’m sure this will be of great benefit.
I don’t admit to being computer literate but believe with time (and patience) we will grow to realise that Daffnet is much better and of huge benefit to the daffodil world.
Again I wish to congratulate Nancy and Ben et al for this fantastic resource and if I can be of any assistance to members in N. Ireland please feel free to drop me a call.
Dave Hardy
I too consider myself computer illiterate but seem able to manage the current daffnet. I have read some of the previous postings on this topic and people have used computer jargon that I don’t understand. Maybe I’m getting on okay with the system because I only click one button, get the home page and click on ‘read more’ then delete the lot after reading and/ or commenting. Maybe the whole system works best for those of us who aren’t skilled enough to do more than keep it simple.
Dave
Sorry to be a fly in the ointment, but the old system, a plain list-serv, was a lot better for me. Getting 70-100 emails a day, dealing with the business day and whatnot, I’d read, save or delete the posts based on what interested me, as time allowed. (It was somewhat harder to get photos, as most need to be downloaded on aol (but now I see thumbnails are gone from this new system, so back to square one)). Under this new method, it’s just too much time and trouble. This is the first time I’ve even taken the time to log in. I realize others may have very different circumstances, but it’s definitely been a bar to my participation as a consumer and provider of information here. I’m very sorry to say that: I know Ben and Nancy have done immesurable service for us all, for free in the web pursuits of the ADS…but this part of the service just isn’t of much use any longer, and I’m still taxed with deleting emails without the benefit of reading them– minus a time commitment. Regards, Drew Mc Farland
I agree with Drew. As much as we appreciate the work that has gone into the new system, it just is not so user friendly. Most of the time I end up deleting the e-mails without reading them due to the extra steps required to actually view the posts. Sorry to be another “fly in the ointment”, but simply looking at numbers of registered users is not giving the whole picture. I have a feeling that many people used to read all the posts, even if we did not comment very often. Most of the time now, I delete the e-mails without even reading them. The audience may have shrunk considerably with this new system.
David Liedlich
Count me in as another dinosaur. I just now, after three months of off and on trying, got logged in to Daffnet. At least I think I am. We will have to see after I tell it to post comment. I know that keeping track of e-mails is a hard job, but I am not getting on here much since I don’t know what I am doing.
I would like to have the message in my e-mail to say more than Admin 2. Could it say post from Brian Duncan, for example, instead of a few words?. I would probably read it. Anonymous messages I many times delete because I don’t have time to click on it, scroll down to see where that particlar message is and then read it.
I am not really against change – I many times have referred to my change of jobs as reinventing myself – I just don’t want it to be above my skill level. I am looking forward to “B and N” giving us tips at the convention.
Donna,
There is no dinosaur as dinosaur then I. However after a couple weeks of trying and finally posting I learned to like it. One, my email is no longer SPAMMED with pictures of Div 2 daffodils. I’ve seen a div 2 before. So two, I get to use my email as email and still enjoy the forum on daffnet. Now I net the notices and click on the link under the signature and see the post. You don’t have to log in to read the post, only if you want to respond.
I’ve learned that it is relatively simple to add pictures to a new post, but you can’t add pictures as comments.
I think Ben and Nancy did a great job of making it user friendly. I like it and would not be happy if we went back.
clay