Bulb Information, Growing Daffodils, Planting, Soil

bulbs under fruit trees

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I’m outside of Ukiah 1800 feet, enough coastal influence to keep it a tad cooler.  At least several days a year over 100 but mostly under 100.  Occasional snows that generally melt off quickly.  Significant rain from late oct/early nov, rarely any significant rain by June.  Acid soil varying from clay to light loam, most areas I would be working in are an almost idea loam.  Competition for trees (and bulbs) are native perennial grasses, a few introduced perennial grasses some perennial weeds and lots of annual weeds and wildflowers.  The ones I expect trouble from most are Hedge nettle (a mint not a real nettle), Sheep Sorrel, Harding grass (controllable) and various tough native grasses with deep root systems and of course the ubiquitous annual grasses of numerous species.

Yes, I have communicated with the Bulb Baron and bought some early pearl, erlicheer, a few misc bulbs and some hybrid Amaryllis.  He has been very helpful and generous and my general impression is that he’s awesome!  Thanks Bill!  I did get golden dawn too, though he recommended the early pearl and erlicheer most.  If I knew this idea was going to work for sure, I would invest in bulbs for some larger plantings.  I will probably be selling at the farmers markets here starting in the next few years, so having potential cut flowers is a bonus.  With that in mind I would like to collect a broad range of bulbs as regards blooming season, just to have them growing here as a latent resource.  In this area there is a white Tazetta with a double yellow center that is fairly ubiquitous on old homesteads and such which grows early and thickly, so I started my experiments with that.  Bill recommended the Amaryllis and I’m trying that as well although he also says it absorbs water through the growing season.  At this point I’m inclined to start experimenting with mixed plantings with the thought that mixed plantings, wherever the plants used can get along well enough, are advantageous and healthier in every regard and could offer more habitat for beneficial insects as well rather than a monocrop of daffodils.  I have to say though that I remain biased toward the narcissus species, a sentiment that I probably don’t need to explain here ;)  While I know there are a lot of species that will grow under deciduous trees, I need primarily that ones that will really out compete all almost all the annuals.  The Tazetta from what I’ve noted in my very limited experience grow much more densely and earlier than the other daffodils, an observation that list members are more likely to be able to confirm or deny.  I think a smattering of narcissus variety/species that are less aggressive, narrower foliaged or somewhat later emerging as well as other species like alliums, native bulbs and corms like Soarproot and Brodeias  could be thrown into the mix and survive and add color and biological diversity.  However, what I really need now is to establish which species/varieties, if any, can act as the workhorses in this system and offer the annual weed smothering and heavy dying mulch of leaves that will make it all work.

I have a limited amount of water and would actually like to use as little as possible regardless as our rivers are heavily taxed downstream by un-water conscious wineries and citizenry.  I have observed many old homestead orchards in this area, and trees can survive a long time and produce fruit with no care once established, but will still appreciate any help I can give them in terms of water conservation in the long term and presumably reward me with more and better fruit for my efforts.  BTW, I am mostly working with apples which are my mainstay in terms of planting and just interest when it comes to fruit trees, though there are other fruits and nuts as well.

Perhaps I should stock up now on Golden Dawn?  I think there is a measure on the ballot this year next to legalizing marijuana cultivation to make Tazettas a controlled substance.  That would at least give the 50% of the populace up here that are completely dependent on the black market marijuana economy something to shift their efforts to… and it would smell a whole lot better than the thousands of skunk farms we have now ;)

Thanks all for your input

At further risk of appearing to be shilling for the Bulb Baron, I would recommend unreservedly the variety Golden Dawn as quite possibly the best Tazetta hybrid of all time for naturalizing in most of NorCal. (no offense intended to your own creations Mr. Welch.)

It was, if I recall, one of the few daffodils hybridized and distributed by Oregon Bulb Farm before De Graff gave up on daffodils and went for the bigger bucks and quicker results in lilies.
One of my top five gardening experiences is that of watching a hawk moth work a small planting of Golden Dawn at sunset for what seemed a very long time.
This is a whole lot cheaper than he’s ever offered them to me.  Also, it’s rumored that these might possibly join the legally controlled substances here in California because of the high levels of euphoria that can be generated by a large planting of them.
Regards,
Michael Larme

 

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1 comment for “bulbs under fruit trees”

  1. Steven:

    So here’s the deal.  I’ve moved around quite a bit in my lifetime,
    so have been forced into awareness of the different soil, season,
    and climatic variations that are so important to long term success
    in any horticultural or agricultural endeavor.  Also I have an abiding
    interest in history of which the history of horticulture is one very
    interesting facet.
    If I have anything to offer you then, that you can’t get elsewhere,
    it would probably be this unique world view (in addition to a
    somewhat fatalistic sense of humor and a pretty good command
    of vulgar, yet amusing language.)  I had a five acre place with a
    house on it in Pine Grove, CA, just up the hill from Jackson at about
    2500 ft. where I experimented with a number of landscape plantings
    of bulbs (and other stuff like old rose varieties, peonies, an endangered
    California lily that was native to the area, Calochortus, etc.) for
    about 7 or 8 years until a health misadventure with CFIDS that lasted
    about 4 years forced it’s sale (just couldn’t take care of  it.)
    I am now well, and quite thankful for it.
    The only reservations I have about your overall plan as described are
    focused on the fact that fruit trees generally (in my experience)  require
    a different feeding regimen to produce in both good quality and quantity.
    At Pine Grove I had mostly a few apple varieties (persimmons were
    not really viable at that elevation — survived but did not prosper.
    In order to get good quality apples with that soil, (which was pretty
    much a rocky red clay, not the wonderful loam you describe),  I had to
    manure pretty heavily in the fall and winter on a regular basis, as well
    as fertilizing with a great quantity of wood ash.  I had only a few trees,
    so was able to control codling moth with pheromone trapping of the
    males.  I also had to irrigate sometimes in the summer to get the kind
    of fruit I wanted in size and texture (although certainly an abandoned
    place across the road had some older apple trees that produced
    on and off for years without any irrigation or attention at all for
    the entire time we lived there.)
    Bulbs, on the other hand, are displeased by manure (they do love
    wood ash) and often respond by rotting in place.  Likewise, almost any
    nitrogenous fertilizer will encourage the sorts of organisms in your
    soil that will eat your bulbs.  Some are more resistant to this problem
    than others, but it’s kind of a crapshoot Until you find out which ones.
    What I finally ended up doing near the apples was leaving the tree root zone
    unplanted, controlling the inevitable weeds that came in with my manure
    with a couple of passes with a scuffle hoe early on before they had a chance
    to seed. Of course I only had a few trees.
    Outside the drip line of the trees, I put in various of the daffodil
    bulbs that were reasonably good performers in my location and were also
    fairly good increasers and tough enough to use for landscape.  Some of the
     very early Tazettas that do well here in the Central Valley and for Bill over
    in Carmel and Santa Cruz were just too early most years up there and
    often got frozen or snowed out.  Lots of leaves, not much in the way of
    harvestable flowers.   Conversely, I was able to grow up there many things
    Sacramento gardeners can only dream about.  Many of the later daffodils
    that just bloom and immediately dry up here because of the early onset of
    hot dry weather conditions did spectacularly well at 2500 feet.  I’m thinking
    of Salome, which is readily available in quantity and is a remarkable flower.
    But even the later N. poeticus and its many hybrids were quite doable up
    there.
    A lot of my daffodil plantings were near the root zones of the native
    deciduous oaks and Ponderosa pine we had in abudance, but really
    any spot that has adequate sunlight when the little buggers are in leaf
    is fair game.
    So you can see that what you are proposing is somewhat different from
    what I ended up doing.  See if it works on some small scale experiments
    before you invest a whole lot of money in bulbs you might have to move.
    Also, you might want to invest in a bulb planter of the kind that Brent Heath
    used to sell (That was the source for mine).  It’s basically made from a piece
    of car or truck leaf spring, notched with a sharpened v ground into the business end
    and welded to a very heavy duty short (36-40″) T handle with bicycle grips on it.
    You stab it in, rock  it to open the hole, drop in a bulb or two, then stomp the
    hole closed.  Works really well in situations like near trees when you can’t dig.
    If I come up with anything else in the way of sage advice, I’ve got your e-mail.
    Buy some Golden Dawn, you won’t regret it.
    Regards,
    Mike Larmer

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