Hybridizers Question Again.

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Thank you everyone who answered, Peter, Brian, Carlos, David, John, Andrew and Leigh. I will try some of your suggestions.

Playing with the doubles appears to be an arcane art and unpredictable. Last season 2008 I noticed that my one Jackson’s Kidson 4W-W flower had a nice stigma and I put N. dubius pollen onto it. The pod produced 30 seeds and I ended up with 21 seedlings this year that appear to be quite strong. So I ordered 6 more bulbs for the 2009 season and flowered about 14 flowers. All had stigmas so I pollinated all of them, with N. dubius, N. gaditanus, Swagger and some miniature division 1 seedlings. No pods reached full term this year. The original bulb from the previous year flowered but had no stigma. Is this telling me something?

Carlos suggested ‘Meeting’ as a possible parent. Actually I flowered out about a dozen flowers of that this year and all had stigmas. All were pollinated with a variety of small multifloral species and I am relatively sure the pollen was good but no pods resulted. I will try again next year.
Peter suggested Blossom. I did get one bulb last fall and got two flowers of these one flower has made a small pod but it is still too soon to harvest and see if there is seed in it.

Looking up daffseek I found that Smokey Bear acts as a seed parent. Our local nursery sold that one and the pictures on the packages even had prominent stigmas so I purchased 12. No stigmas on any of the flowers and I am not even sure that it is Smokey Bear.

So far the only reliable double that I found that makes pods is Viennese Waltz. I did get a nice miniature double seedling with two flowers when it was crossed with N. dubius, but it was only one out of about 50 seedlings. The rest were nice but not doubles. On the other hand nearly every seedling from N. lusitanicus onto Viennese Waltz gave doubles. A number of these are rather nice miniature doubles and some of these seem to have partial fertility and breed on. I would not have expected that. Unfortunately the Havens no longer list Viennese Waltz, but Elise found and sent half a dozen last fall. One pod of V.W. with dubius this year only gave 3 semi-flat seeds, normally I expect 12-20 seeds to a pod. Another with Viennese Waltz crossed with N. pallidulus did yield 24 seeds this year and there are still two pods on the plants crossed with N. fernandesii. They look good.

Well I will try and get the additional cultivars that you have recommended and see what happens next season.

thanks for all the information.

1 comment for “Hybridizers Question Again.

  1. In a message dated 4/12/09 8:51:08 AM,  title= writes:

    Well I will try and get the additional cultivars that you have
    recommended and see what happens next season.

    thanks for all the information.



    I know this is not precisely related to your question, but I just wondered if you had ever done anything with pollen from Golden Rain?  My experience, from crossing it onto other diploid tazettas is that I get a disastrous double abnormality perhaps best described as a double-double-double where the whole thing is a collossal mass of green spiky petaloids that never even color up, they just stay green and soon dry up, and there is no scent.  The bud sheaths that emerge from the ground are absolutely massive, then what comes out is this small number of florets, made up of these weird very fat buds.  Incidentally, in rare cases I have seen this same thing happen as a mutation in Double Chinese, and once or twice in Erlicheer.  If I remember correctly, I think Barbara Fry said this occasionally occured as a mutation (or whatever it is) in commercial stocks of Cheerfulness.  I believe she called it a “bullhead”.

    I have raised seedlings from using pollen of Constantinople, in this case it was onto the Autumn Colors group and I flowered this year two early doubles that inherit that great scent, and have pollen and pistils.

    I have a double from Matador x (probably) Erlicheer.  It looks like a larger-florets Erlicheer, smells just like it, and has the really dark green foliage.  Though no more than 4 florets per stem so far, it is a very full double, sometimes inclined to some nasty greening, but other times gorgeous.

    Best wishes,

    Bill the Bulb Baron (William R.P. Welch)
    click here for:
    Availability List
    full website:

    NEW address: 1031 Cayuga Street Apt B, Santa Cruz, CA 95062, USA

    New phone numbers as well:
    Phone (831) 236-8397

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